The RVer's Open Forum

Swirve.com Links: Swirve.com Free Email Games Fantasy Sports E-Cards Movies Horoscopes Freebies Web Search

NOTICE: Beginning July 10th, 2008, this message board service will no longer be active or available for use.

The RVer's Open Forum / GENERAL RV DISCUSSIONS / Holding tank chemicals

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages

barney
User ID: 1418774 Feb 26th 8:46 AM
What is the best additive to use in the holding tanks to claen the sensors and tank?

NCHornet1
User ID: 1028194 May 26th 2:39 PM
If all I am going to be gone a week is this enough time for the enzymes to really work. You are right about Odorless being a food for the bacteria that already exists, but from what I have been reading the enzyme based products don't really help much unless it is allowed to sit in the tanks for a while. I always dump and over flush my tanks prior to leaving a park, so would the enzyme product be a waste for me? As I said, I have never had a hint of odor with what I am using so part of me says "don't fix something that ain't broke". What do you think?
Kevin

(Mod)

Mike
Administrator May 29th 9:45 AM
Kevin,

The idea behind enzyme producing bacteria based holding tank products is that they add an abundance of bacteria to the holding tank right now, bacteria which would otherwise take a much longer time to grow naturally.

The bacteria in liquid products becomes effective immediately when it has material to digest. Where no such material exists the liquid bacteria remains dormant.

So, the answer to your question is, yes. A week, even a day, is enough time for the enzymes to start working. In addition, the longer you leave the product in the holding tank the better. That's why I recommend adding a couple gallons of water and a couple ounces of bacteria to an otherwise empty holding tank, even when in storage.

Mike

Marty
User ID: 2484284 May 29th 5:29 PM
Ok Mike" I know I'm dumb as "S" on this subject, but are you saying that by putting just a couple of gallon of water plus "liquid enzymes product" in a tank, it will, ie: also clean the probes that set well above the fluid level? (depending on time period)

Marty in TN

Mike
Administrator May 29th 6:10 PM
No, Marty. That's not what I said.

However, adding a couple of ounces of a good liquid bacteria holding tank product, FILLING the holding tank with fresh, clean water, and leaving it for a number of days . . . WILL. Anything that's shrouding the sensor 'that would normally be disposed of in an RV waste water holding tank', including TP and grease, would be digested by the enzymes.

The following is from my old FAQ page. Remember, the specific product mentioned is no longer available and I'm NOT going back into that business! ;-)

********************************
Question:
My black water holding tank sensor doesn't read correctly anymore. I know that the tank is almost empty but the indicator panel reads three quarters full all the time. Leon

Response:
The problem is either mechanical, electrical, or the result of a dirty in-tank sensor. Here's a good, inexpensive way to find out if a dirty sending unit is indeed the culprit, and most times fix it if it is.

The next time you store your RV between trips make sure you’ve emptied and thoroughly rinsed the holding tank. Then fill it with fresh water to nearly full, add the correct amount of CrestLine Liquid Bacteria for the capacity of the tank, and fill it the rest of the way with water.

Let the RV sit as long as you can without adding anything to the tank. This will allow the bacteria and the enzymes they produce to do their job of digesting any toilet paper or organic debris that may be clinging to the sensors. Finally, before your next outing, simply empty and thoroughly rinse the tank once again. If you have allowed sufficient time (a few days or so should do it but really dirty tanks may need longer) for the enzymes to work the sensors should read correctly. If they don't then the problem is most likely mechanical or electrical and, if you're not handy with such things, you'll need to take the RV to a service center for additional diagnosis and repair.

We also recommend that this procedure be performed on an annual basis to keep both your grey and black water holding tanks, sensors, and dump valves pristine clean. At less than forty cents to treat a 20 gallon holding tank, CrestLine Liquid Bacteria is the least expensive insurance you'll ever buy.

Remember that extremely dirty holding tanks didn't get that way overnight. Be sure to allow the enzymes enough time to 'eat' their way through all of the accumulated matter.

Regular use of CrestLine Liquid Bacteria, along with correct holding tank dumping techniques, should prevent any reoccurrence of fouled holding tank sensors.

***********************************

Mike

ces
User ID: 2365684 Jul 24th 1:01 AM
What did use in the holding tank was TST. I was satisfied with it, but read in one of the recent Escapees magazines that one of the chemicals in it was quite bad for other living things & the environment in general.

So I switched to Odorlos. The odor control is fine. But the sensors are not. I've been parked for several months. For all of this time I always use a lot of water in flushing. I probably have to empty the tank every 3 or 4 days, that's how much water I flush it with. (There's just me & my Mom & she's in Depends) I use Scott TP. When I first empty the tank and then add the Odorlos, I flush about 6 toilet bowls full of water.

Suggestions?

Where do you get this Pure Power? Is there a website for it?

Cathy

Mike
Administrator Jul 24th 10:06 PM
Cathy,
Wayne M. posted the URL for the product in his message of Mar 4th at 6:51 PM.
http://www.phasefourindustries.com/Prod.html

Re. TST; See the 'Formadehyde or natural bacteria?' thread. To the best of my knowledge, Camco makes no bacteria based holding tank products. (That was true a year or so ago when one of their reps talked to me about selling my business to them.) Although TST liquid is advertised as "Formaldehyde free - safe for all septic tanks!" and TST Free is advertised as "environmentally-friendly liquid treatment has no perfumes, dyes or formaldehyde." that doesn't necessarily make it so. There are many chemicals in the formaldehyde family called other than 'formaldehyde'. Saying a product contains no formaldehyde doesn't mean that it doesn't contain chemicals from the same family. Any chemical name ending in 'dehyde' is bad. 'Fromalin' is an oft used "substitute" for formaldehyde by is really still formaldehyde, just watered down. Likewise, products advertised this way may contain alcohol based chemicals which will also kill beneficial bacteria and poison our environment.

Since Odorlos is not a bacteria based holding tank product (it's basically liquid fertilizer) it will do nothing more to clean your holding tank sensor probes than will simply using the toilet for its intended purpose.

Mike

cad_man
User ID: 1028194 Aug 8th 10:59 AM
Here's another bacteria/enzyme based choice.
http://www.bio-clean.com/default.php
I have no experience with the product and this is not a recommendation, just information.

(Mod)

Mike
Administrator Aug 8th 11:08 AM
Cad_man,

It's a RidX like product geared toward the hospitality industry. Check out their 'R.V. & BOAT HOLDING TANKS' application. It's pretty funny, obviously added as a last minute thought by someone who really doesn't know about RV and marine waste water holding tanks.

Some of their other application claims are pretty far fetched as well.

Mike

Stan
User ID: 0192094 Aug 8th 6:30 PM
Hey Mike; What about yeast? When I was on a septic system It worked very well. Stan

Mike
Administrator Aug 8th 9:01 PM
Stan,

It won't work. It's a different type of bacteria. Becides, I never heard of anyone who wanted to make bread in a waste water holding tank! ;-)

Mike

Stan
User ID: 0192094 Aug 8th 9:35 PM
Mike, I guess "They Say" has lied again. I did look up a few sites on septic sys. It will to some degree increase enzyme action but it is a waste of money acording to the sites that I visited. Manure and dead cats don't work either.LOL Stan

BOB
User ID: 1578334 Aug 9th 8:40 PM
I wonder if all this antibacterial soap has any affect on the bacteria in my tank.
BOB

Mike
Administrator Aug 9th 9:28 PM
Bob,

The small amounts of antibacterial agents in body soaps, i.e. Dial, have no measurable ill effects on bacterial/enzyme products made for RV waste water holding tanks. There really isn't enough of it to do any harm.

Disinfectant cleaners, pine oil based cleaning products, bleach, and other products of that ilk are another story.

I don't know if I mentioned it earlier in this thread or not, but some large dosage medications, i.e. penicillin, tetracycline, etc. can also kill bacteria after they pass through your body.

Mike

Linda
User ID: 9488873 Aug 22nd 4:17 PM
I have heard rv'ers rave about Eco-Save. What is your opinion on it?

Mike
Administrator Aug 22nd 6:10 PM
Linda,

I've answered that question more times than I can remember and each time I've had to write and then rewrite my response several times to tone it down.

Their "concentrated" liquid product is probably okay, but their 'original' formula, requiring "just 3 to 4 ounces . . . in a typical tank" is simply a watered down version of other such products. Look back through this thread and you'll see what the dilution ratio of good, cost efficient products should be.

"3 to 4 ounces . . . in a typical tank"? What is the size of a "typical tank"? What's the in-use cost of their products? What's the dilution ratio? HOW MANY OUNCES PER GALLON must one use???? And those questions apply to their "concentrated" product as well. "only one ounce in a typical tank". PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

One can only wonder since there's no pricing information on the website, and not much else other than hyperbole. Example, enzyme producing bacteria based RV holding tank products do not "lubricate valves"!

If you read back through this thread you'll get the gist of how I feel about businesses/websites that sell holding tank products but provide no real-world, USEFUL information or education.

Okay, in addition to what you see here, I've written and deleted an additional hundred lines of text to further explain my opinion of this company and their products. Again, I've toned it down and I think I'll leave it at this; would I buy/use Eco-Save products?

No.

BTW, Linda, the reason some folks rave about a product is because they don't know that there's something a LOT better out there, and often at a lower 'in-use' price. "I tried it. It worked okay . . . better than the old stuff I had . . . so I guess it's good." Pity.

Hey, Gang! How come no one's reported back about their experiences with that other product you were going to try?

Mike

wayne m.
User ID: 0025534 Aug 24th 4:01 PM
I just got back from 3 weeks in the midwest, end of July to mid August. Weather was hot! I begin using Pure Power in early June and I'm very happy with the product. Never dumped until the holding tank sensors indicated 2/3 full. No odor problems detected and sensors are working fine. I'd give Pure Power a "thumbs up".

Mike
Administrator Aug 24th 5:23 PM
Thanks for the report, Wayne. You can't ask for much more than that.

Mike

Mike
Administrator Aug 26th 7:26 PM
Canadian government jumps on the bacteria/enzyme based RV holding tank products bandwagon.
http://www.rvlifemag.com/file324/rvtip324.html

Jonna
User ID: 1397584 Sep 2nd 12:30 AM
I was another happy customer of Mike's that has been out in the cold searching for something to replace Crestline. I tried Piranha and ended up dumping most of the bottle, and NOT in my tanks either! It didn't work for me and it smelled awful, not just the tanks with it in them but the stuff straight from the bottle. Yuck!

I'm off to find Pure Power.

Jonna

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages

barney User ID: 1418774	Feb 26th 8:46 AM What is the best additive to use in the holding tanks to claen the sensors and tank?
NCHornet1 User ID: 1028194	May 26th 2:39 PM If all I am going to be gone a week is this enough time for the enzymes to really work. You are right about Odorless being a food for the bacteria that already exists, but from what I have been reading the enzyme based products don't really help much unless it is allowed to sit in the tanks for a while. I always dump and over flush my tanks prior to leaving a park, so would the enzyme product be a waste for me? As I said, I have never had a hint of odor with what I am using so part of me says "don't fix something that ain't broke". What do you think? Kevin (Mod)
Mike Administrator	May 29th 9:45 AM Kevin, The idea behind enzyme producing bacteria based holding tank products is that they add an abundance of bacteria to the holding tank right now, bacteria which would otherwise take a much longer time to grow naturally. The bacteria in liquid products becomes effective immediately when it has material to digest. Where no such material exists the liquid bacteria remains dormant. So, the answer to your question is, yes. A week, even a day, is enough time for the enzymes to start working. In addition, the longer you leave the product in the holding tank the better. That's why I recommend adding a couple gallons of water and a couple ounces of bacteria to an otherwise empty holding tank, even when in storage. Mike
Marty User ID: 2484284	May 29th 5:29 PM Ok Mike" I know I'm dumb as "S" on this subject, but are you saying that by putting just a couple of gallon of water plus "liquid enzymes product" in a tank, it will, ie: also clean the probes that set well above the fluid level? (depending on time period) Marty in TN
Mike Administrator	May 29th 6:10 PM No, Marty. That's not what I said. However, adding a couple of ounces of a good liquid bacteria holding tank product, FILLING the holding tank with fresh, clean water, and leaving it for a number of days . . . WILL. Anything that's shrouding the sensor 'that would normally be disposed of in an RV waste water holding tank', including TP and grease, would be digested by the enzymes. The following is from my old FAQ page. Remember, the specific product mentioned is no longer available and I'm NOT going back into that business! ;-) ****************************** Question: My black water holding tank sensor doesn't read correctly anymore. I know that the tank is almost empty but the indicator panel reads three quarters full all the time. Leon Response: The problem is either mechanical, electrical, or the result of a dirty in-tank sensor. Here's a good, inexpensive way to find out if a dirty sending unit is indeed the culprit, and most times fix it if it is. The next time you store your RV between trips make sure you’ve emptied and thoroughly rinsed the holding tank. Then fill it with fresh water to nearly full, add the correct amount of CrestLine Liquid Bacteria for the capacity of the tank, and fill it the rest of the way with water. Let the RV sit as long as you can without adding anything to the tank. This will allow the bacteria and the enzymes they produce to do their job of digesting any toilet paper or organic debris that may be clinging to the sensors. Finally, before your next outing, simply empty and thoroughly rinse the tank once again. If you have allowed sufficient time (a few days or so should do it but really dirty tanks may need longer) for the enzymes to work the sensors should read correctly. If they don't then the problem is most likely mechanical or electrical and, if you're not handy with such things, you'll need to take the RV to a service center for additional diagnosis and repair. We also recommend that this procedure be performed on an annual basis to keep both your grey and black water holding tanks, sensors, and dump valves pristine clean. At less than forty cents to treat a 20 gallon holding tank, CrestLine Liquid Bacteria is the least expensive insurance you'll ever buy. Remember that extremely dirty holding tanks didn't get that way overnight. Be sure to allow the enzymes enough time to 'eat' their way through all of the accumulated matter. Regular use of CrestLine Liquid Bacteria, along with correct holding tank dumping techniques, should prevent any reoccurrence of fouled holding tank sensors. ********************************* Mike
ces User ID: 2365684	Jul 24th 1:01 AM What did use in the holding tank was TST. I was satisfied with it, but read in one of the recent Escapees magazines that one of the chemicals in it was quite bad for other living things & the environment in general. So I switched to Odorlos. The odor control is fine. But the sensors are not. I've been parked for several months. For all of this time I always use a lot of water in flushing. I probably have to empty the tank every 3 or 4 days, that's how much water I flush it with. (There's just me & my Mom & she's in Depends) I use Scott TP. When I first empty the tank and then add the Odorlos, I flush about 6 toilet bowls full of water. Suggestions? Where do you get this Pure Power? Is there a website for it? Cathy
Mike Administrator	Jul 24th 10:06 PM Cathy, Wayne M. posted the URL for the product in his message of Mar 4th at 6:51 PM. http://www.phasefourindustries.com/Prod.html Re. TST; See the 'Formadehyde or natural bacteria?' thread. To the best of my knowledge, Camco makes no bacteria based holding tank products. (That was true a year or so ago when one of their reps talked to me about selling my business to them.) Although TST liquid is advertised as "Formaldehyde free - safe for all septic tanks!" and TST Free is advertised as "environmentally-friendly liquid treatment has no perfumes, dyes or formaldehyde." that doesn't necessarily make it so. There are many chemicals in the formaldehyde family called other than 'formaldehyde'. Saying a product contains no formaldehyde doesn't mean that it doesn't contain chemicals from the same family. Any chemical name ending in 'dehyde' is bad. 'Fromalin' is an oft used "substitute" for formaldehyde by is really still formaldehyde, just watered down. Likewise, products advertised this way may contain alcohol based chemicals which will also kill beneficial bacteria and poison our environment. Since Odorlos is not a bacteria based holding tank product (it's basically liquid fertilizer) it will do nothing more to clean your holding tank sensor probes than will simply using the toilet for its intended purpose. Mike
cad_man User ID: 1028194	Aug 8th 10:59 AM Here's another bacteria/enzyme based choice. http://www.bio-clean.com/default.php I have no experience with the product and this is not a recommendation, just information. (Mod)
Mike Administrator	Aug 8th 11:08 AM Cad_man, It's a RidX like product geared toward the hospitality industry. Check out their 'R.V. & BOAT HOLDING TANKS' application. It's pretty funny, obviously added as a last minute thought by someone who really doesn't know about RV and marine waste water holding tanks. Some of their other application claims are pretty far fetched as well. Mike
Stan User ID: 0192094	Aug 8th 6:30 PM Hey Mike; What about yeast? When I was on a septic system It worked very well. Stan
Mike Administrator	Aug 8th 9:01 PM Stan, It won't work. It's a different type of bacteria. Becides, I never heard of anyone who wanted to make bread in a waste water holding tank! ;-) Mike
Stan User ID: 0192094	Aug 8th 9:35 PM Mike, I guess "They Say" has lied again. I did look up a few sites on septic sys. It will to some degree increase enzyme action but it is a waste of money acording to the sites that I visited. Manure and dead cats don't work either.LOL Stan
BOB User ID: 1578334	Aug 9th 8:40 PM I wonder if all this antibacterial soap has any affect on the bacteria in my tank. BOB
Mike Administrator	Aug 9th 9:28 PM Bob, The small amounts of antibacterial agents in body soaps, i.e. Dial, have no measurable ill effects on bacterial/enzyme products made for RV waste water holding tanks. There really isn't enough of it to do any harm. Disinfectant cleaners, pine oil based cleaning products, bleach, and other products of that ilk are another story. I don't know if I mentioned it earlier in this thread or not, but some large dosage medications, i.e. penicillin, tetracycline, etc. can also kill bacteria after they pass through your body. Mike
Linda User ID: 9488873	Aug 22nd 4:17 PM I have heard rv'ers rave about Eco-Save. What is your opinion on it?
Mike Administrator	Aug 22nd 6:10 PM Linda, I've answered that question more times than I can remember and each time I've had to write and then rewrite my response several times to tone it down. Their "concentrated" liquid product is probably okay, but their 'original' formula, requiring "just 3 to 4 ounces . . . in a typical tank" is simply a watered down version of other such products. Look back through this thread and you'll see what the dilution ratio of good, cost efficient products should be. "3 to 4 ounces . . . in a typical tank"? What is the size of a "typical tank"? What's the in-use cost of their products? What's the dilution ratio? HOW MANY OUNCES PER GALLON must one use???? And those questions apply to their "concentrated" product as well. "only one ounce in a typical tank". PLEASE!!!!!!!!!! One can only wonder since there's no pricing information on the website, and not much else other than hyperbole. Example, enzyme producing bacteria based RV holding tank products do not "lubricate valves"! If you read back through this thread you'll get the gist of how I feel about businesses/websites that sell holding tank products but provide no real-world, USEFUL information or education. Okay, in addition to what you see here, I've written and deleted an additional hundred lines of text to further explain my opinion of this company and their products. Again, I've toned it down and I think I'll leave it at this; would I buy/use Eco-Save products? No. BTW, Linda, the reason some folks rave about a product is because they don't know that there's something a LOT better out there, and often at a lower 'in-use' price. "I tried it. It worked okay . . . better than the old stuff I had . . . so I guess it's good." Pity. Hey, Gang! How come no one's reported back about their experiences with that other product you were going to try? Mike
wayne m. User ID: 0025534	Aug 24th 4:01 PM I just got back from 3 weeks in the midwest, end of July to mid August. Weather was hot! I begin using Pure Power in early June and I'm very happy with the product. Never dumped until the holding tank sensors indicated 2/3 full. No odor problems detected and sensors are working fine. I'd give Pure Power a "thumbs up".
Mike Administrator	Aug 24th 5:23 PM Thanks for the report, Wayne. You can't ask for much more than that. Mike
Mike Administrator	Aug 26th 7:26 PM Canadian government jumps on the bacteria/enzyme based RV holding tank products bandwagon. http://www.rvlifemag.com/file324/rvtip324.html
Jonna User ID: 1397584	Sep 2nd 12:30 AM I was another happy customer of Mike's that has been out in the cold searching for something to replace Crestline. I tried Piranha and ended up dumping most of the bottle, and NOT in my tanks either! It didn't work for me and it smelled awful, not just the tanks with it in them but the stuff straight from the bottle. Yuck! I'm off to find Pure Power. Jonna