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The RVer's Open Forum / GENERAL RV DISCUSSIONS / Holding tank chemicals

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barney
User ID: 1418774 Feb 26th 8:46 AM
What is the best additive to use in the holding tanks to claen the sensors and tank?

Kevin from NC.
User ID: 0534004 May 17th 4:19 PM
Barney,
I have a family of four and use Odorlos in my trailer and I have never had any foul odors to complain about. The product claims to break down solids clean sensors and lubricate sills and is formaldyhide free. I have been using it for a year and have never had any problem with sensors not reading right. I think the problem with sensors not reading correctly is not the product used for odor it is in the maintenance and cleaning of your tanks. Before I leave a campground I take about an hour and first drain both my holding tanks. Ithen fill them with fresh water and drain again. I do this four times to each tank. I then pour two cups of bleach into each tank along with 3 to 5 gallons of fresh water. Upon arriving at home I then drain this at home. I live on a farm so I can do this, although there has never been anything offensive left by the time I arrive home. This practice although time consuming assures that the tanks are clean.
Good Luck
Kevin from NC.

Mike
Administrator May 17th 6:21 PM
Kevin,

Your dramatic over-rinsing and use of bleach in the waste water holding tanks assures that all of the *beneficial* bacteria which breaks down the waste you deposit in the tanks is killed. (I'm glad you only dump this at home!)

This bacteria is *essential* to good waste water holding tank maintenance. Odorlos does not contain bacteria and therefore does not aid in breaking down TP and other solid waste. Odorlos is essentially a liquid fertilizer that is supposed to 'feed' the naturally occuring bacteria. If there's no bacteria Odorlos does little but cover malodors.

MIke

Bud
User ID: 0004344 May 20th 9:49 PM
Mike,
Can you give us names of products which have
the family of bacteria that you suggest as the
best way to digest tank contents?
Thanks,
Bud

Mike
Administrator May 20th 11:22 PM
I'm sorry, Bud. I can't recommend any specific product.

I can, however, provide some insight on what to look for in a enyzyme producing bacteria based holding tank product.

First, concentration level. Two ounces to treat a standard 40 gal. tank is the right dilution ratio. Any less, i.e. one oz. to 40 gal., is too small an amount to work with unless you dilute the product yourself by mixing a quart of tap water to a quart of product.

Products requiring four or more ounces (some require 12!) to treat a 40 gal. tank are watered down and therefore expensive.

Second, the guarantee. If it's not a total satisfaction guarantee for a long enough period to allow you to really evaluate the product the guarantee is no good. Our's was 60 days, no questions asked.

Third, and most important, is the mix and quantity of bacteria. For this you will need the product MSDS (material safety data sheet). Manufacturers are required by law to provide this information. If a store or company won't willing provide this information they are suspect.

Here's what our bacteria mix was:
Bacteria count: 200,000,000,000/gal. (two hundred BILLION per gallon! The highest concentration of any product that I'm aware of on the market today.)

producing the following enzymes
protease...fat, grease & oil digesting bacteria
lipase...protein digesting bacteria
amylase...starch digesting bacteria
cellulase...cellulose digesting bacteria (specifically for TP)

Last but not least, shelf life.
Our's was 2 years minimum.

Mike

Mike
User ID: 9683713 May 22nd 5:11 AM
Mike, say it aint so! I can't get your stuff anymore?!!!

The best product I have found anywhere...Oh boy, here we go again with problems.

cad _man
User ID: 8019393 May 22nd 10:16 AM
Base on Mike's above statements, I did some (as in a little) research on Pure Power. It seems, from the small amount of information you can get off the WEB about the product, it is close to Mike's old product. When I run out of my last of Mike's STUFF, I will purchase Pure Power and give it a shot. According to their WEB site it would have a Bacteria count of 280 Billion per gallon, it also uses the same concentration as before, 2 oz. per 40 gallons. It does use enzymes as well, alas it does not give a description of them.

cad_man

Mike
Administrator May 22nd 11:12 AM
cad_man,

Please do report back with your opinion of the product. I see that the reported bacteria count is indeed higher than I thought. If the mix is right that's good news.

Two things that bother me are the addition of green dye and wintergreen fragrance. The dye is totally unnecessary. Unless it's overpowering, the fragrance is probably okay but I would be interested in your impressions.

Mike, I retired the RVChem part of my business about nine months ago.

Mike

NCHornet1
User ID: 1028194 May 26th 2:39 PM
If all I am going to be gone a week is this enough time for the enzymes to really work. You are right about Odorless being a food for the bacteria that already exists, but from what I have been reading the enzyme based products don't really help much unless it is allowed to sit in the tanks for a while. I always dump and over flush my tanks prior to leaving a park, so would the enzyme product be a waste for me? As I said, I have never had a hint of odor with what I am using so part of me says "don't fix something that ain't broke". What do you think?
Kevin

(Mod)

Mike
Administrator May 29th 9:45 AM
Kevin,

The idea behind enzyme producing bacteria based holding tank products is that they add an abundance of bacteria to the holding tank right now, bacteria which would otherwise take a much longer time to grow naturally.

The bacteria in liquid products becomes effective immediately when it has material to digest. Where no such material exists the liquid bacteria remains dormant.

So, the answer to your question is, yes. A week, even a day, is enough time for the enzymes to start working. In addition, the longer you leave the product in the holding tank the better. That's why I recommend adding a couple gallons of water and a couple ounces of bacteria to an otherwise empty holding tank, even when in storage.

Mike

Marty
User ID: 2484284 May 29th 5:29 PM
Ok Mike" I know I'm dumb as "S" on this subject, but are you saying that by putting just a couple of gallon of water plus "liquid enzymes product" in a tank, it will, ie: also clean the probes that set well above the fluid level? (depending on time period)

Marty in TN

Mike
Administrator May 29th 6:10 PM
No, Marty. That's not what I said.

However, adding a couple of ounces of a good liquid bacteria holding tank product, FILLING the holding tank with fresh, clean water, and leaving it for a number of days . . . WILL. Anything that's shrouding the sensor 'that would normally be disposed of in an RV waste water holding tank', including TP and grease, would be digested by the enzymes.

The following is from my old FAQ page. Remember, the specific product mentioned is no longer available and I'm NOT going back into that business! ;-)

********************************
Question:
My black water holding tank sensor doesn't read correctly anymore. I know that the tank is almost empty but the indicator panel reads three quarters full all the time. Leon

Response:
The problem is either mechanical, electrical, or the result of a dirty in-tank sensor. Here's a good, inexpensive way to find out if a dirty sending unit is indeed the culprit, and most times fix it if it is.

The next time you store your RV between trips make sure you’ve emptied and thoroughly rinsed the holding tank. Then fill it with fresh water to nearly full, add the correct amount of CrestLine Liquid Bacteria for the capacity of the tank, and fill it the rest of the way with water.

Let the RV sit as long as you can without adding anything to the tank. This will allow the bacteria and the enzymes they produce to do their job of digesting any toilet paper or organic debris that may be clinging to the sensors. Finally, before your next outing, simply empty and thoroughly rinse the tank once again. If you have allowed sufficient time (a few days or so should do it but really dirty tanks may need longer) for the enzymes to work the sensors should read correctly. If they don't then the problem is most likely mechanical or electrical and, if you're not handy with such things, you'll need to take the RV to a service center for additional diagnosis and repair.

We also recommend that this procedure be performed on an annual basis to keep both your grey and black water holding tanks, sensors, and dump valves pristine clean. At less than forty cents to treat a 20 gallon holding tank, CrestLine Liquid Bacteria is the least expensive insurance you'll ever buy.

Remember that extremely dirty holding tanks didn't get that way overnight. Be sure to allow the enzymes enough time to 'eat' their way through all of the accumulated matter.

Regular use of CrestLine Liquid Bacteria, along with correct holding tank dumping techniques, should prevent any reoccurrence of fouled holding tank sensors.

***********************************

Mike

ces
User ID: 2365684 Jul 24th 1:01 AM
What did use in the holding tank was TST. I was satisfied with it, but read in one of the recent Escapees magazines that one of the chemicals in it was quite bad for other living things & the environment in general.

So I switched to Odorlos. The odor control is fine. But the sensors are not. I've been parked for several months. For all of this time I always use a lot of water in flushing. I probably have to empty the tank every 3 or 4 days, that's how much water I flush it with. (There's just me & my Mom & she's in Depends) I use Scott TP. When I first empty the tank and then add the Odorlos, I flush about 6 toilet bowls full of water.

Suggestions?

Where do you get this Pure Power? Is there a website for it?

Cathy

Mike
Administrator Jul 24th 10:06 PM
Cathy,
Wayne M. posted the URL for the product in his message of Mar 4th at 6:51 PM.
http://www.phasefourindustries.com/Prod.html

Re. TST; See the 'Formadehyde or natural bacteria?' thread. To the best of my knowledge, Camco makes no bacteria based holding tank products. (That was true a year or so ago when one of their reps talked to me about selling my business to them.) Although TST liquid is advertised as "Formaldehyde free - safe for all septic tanks!" and TST Free is advertised as "environmentally-friendly liquid treatment has no perfumes, dyes or formaldehyde." that doesn't necessarily make it so. There are many chemicals in the formaldehyde family called other than 'formaldehyde'. Saying a product contains no formaldehyde doesn't mean that it doesn't contain chemicals from the same family. Any chemical name ending in 'dehyde' is bad. 'Fromalin' is an oft used "substitute" for formaldehyde by is really still formaldehyde, just watered down. Likewise, products advertised this way may contain alcohol based chemicals which will also kill beneficial bacteria and poison our environment.

Since Odorlos is not a bacteria based holding tank product (it's basically liquid fertilizer) it will do nothing more to clean your holding tank sensor probes than will simply using the toilet for its intended purpose.

Mike

cad_man
User ID: 1028194 Aug 8th 10:59 AM
Here's another bacteria/enzyme based choice.
http://www.bio-clean.com/default.php
I have no experience with the product and this is not a recommendation, just information.

(Mod)

Mike
Administrator Aug 8th 11:08 AM
Cad_man,

It's a RidX like product geared toward the hospitality industry. Check out their 'R.V. & BOAT HOLDING TANKS' application. It's pretty funny, obviously added as a last minute thought by someone who really doesn't know about RV and marine waste water holding tanks.

Some of their other application claims are pretty far fetched as well.

Mike

Stan
User ID: 0192094 Aug 8th 6:30 PM
Hey Mike; What about yeast? When I was on a septic system It worked very well. Stan

Mike
Administrator Aug 8th 9:01 PM
Stan,

It won't work. It's a different type of bacteria. Becides, I never heard of anyone who wanted to make bread in a waste water holding tank! ;-)

Mike

Stan
User ID: 0192094 Aug 8th 9:35 PM
Mike, I guess "They Say" has lied again. I did look up a few sites on septic sys. It will to some degree increase enzyme action but it is a waste of money acording to the sites that I visited. Manure and dead cats don't work either.LOL Stan

BOB
User ID: 1578334 Aug 9th 8:40 PM
I wonder if all this antibacterial soap has any affect on the bacteria in my tank.
BOB

Back 20 Messages Next 20 Messages

barney User ID: 1418774	Feb 26th 8:46 AM What is the best additive to use in the holding tanks to claen the sensors and tank?
Kevin from NC. User ID: 0534004	May 17th 4:19 PM Barney, I have a family of four and use Odorlos in my trailer and I have never had any foul odors to complain about. The product claims to break down solids clean sensors and lubricate sills and is formaldyhide free. I have been using it for a year and have never had any problem with sensors not reading right. I think the problem with sensors not reading correctly is not the product used for odor it is in the maintenance and cleaning of your tanks. Before I leave a campground I take about an hour and first drain both my holding tanks. Ithen fill them with fresh water and drain again. I do this four times to each tank. I then pour two cups of bleach into each tank along with 3 to 5 gallons of fresh water. Upon arriving at home I then drain this at home. I live on a farm so I can do this, although there has never been anything offensive left by the time I arrive home. This practice although time consuming assures that the tanks are clean. Good Luck Kevin from NC.
Mike Administrator	May 17th 6:21 PM Kevin, Your dramatic over-rinsing and use of bleach in the waste water holding tanks assures that all of the beneficial bacteria which breaks down the waste you deposit in the tanks is killed. (I'm glad you only dump this at home!) This bacteria is essential to good waste water holding tank maintenance. Odorlos does not contain bacteria and therefore does not aid in breaking down TP and other solid waste. Odorlos is essentially a liquid fertilizer that is supposed to 'feed' the naturally occuring bacteria. If there's no bacteria Odorlos does little but cover malodors. MIke
Bud User ID: 0004344	May 20th 9:49 PM Mike, Can you give us names of products which have the family of bacteria that you suggest as the best way to digest tank contents? Thanks, Bud
Mike Administrator	May 20th 11:22 PM I'm sorry, Bud. I can't recommend any specific product. I can, however, provide some insight on what to look for in a enyzyme producing bacteria based holding tank product. First, concentration level. Two ounces to treat a standard 40 gal. tank is the right dilution ratio. Any less, i.e. one oz. to 40 gal., is too small an amount to work with unless you dilute the product yourself by mixing a quart of tap water to a quart of product. Products requiring four or more ounces (some require 12!) to treat a 40 gal. tank are watered down and therefore expensive. Second, the guarantee. If it's not a total satisfaction guarantee for a long enough period to allow you to really evaluate the product the guarantee is no good. Our's was 60 days, no questions asked. Third, and most important, is the mix and quantity of bacteria. For this you will need the product MSDS (material safety data sheet). Manufacturers are required by law to provide this information. If a store or company won't willing provide this information they are suspect. Here's what our bacteria mix was: Bacteria count: 200,000,000,000/gal. (two hundred BILLION per gallon! The highest concentration of any product that I'm aware of on the market today.) producing the following enzymes protease...fat, grease & oil digesting bacteria lipase...protein digesting bacteria amylase...starch digesting bacteria cellulase...cellulose digesting bacteria (specifically for TP) Last but not least, shelf life. Our's was 2 years minimum. Mike
Mike User ID: 9683713	May 22nd 5:11 AM Mike, say it aint so! I can't get your stuff anymore?!!! The best product I have found anywhere...Oh boy, here we go again with problems.
cad _man User ID: 8019393	May 22nd 10:16 AM Base on Mike's above statements, I did some (as in a little) research on Pure Power. It seems, from the small amount of information you can get off the WEB about the product, it is close to Mike's old product. When I run out of my last of Mike's STUFF, I will purchase Pure Power and give it a shot. According to their WEB site it would have a Bacteria count of 280 Billion per gallon, it also uses the same concentration as before, 2 oz. per 40 gallons. It does use enzymes as well, alas it does not give a description of them. cad_man
Mike Administrator	May 22nd 11:12 AM cad_man, Please do report back with your opinion of the product. I see that the reported bacteria count is indeed higher than I thought. If the mix is right that's good news. Two things that bother me are the addition of green dye and wintergreen fragrance. The dye is totally unnecessary. Unless it's overpowering, the fragrance is probably okay but I would be interested in your impressions. Mike, I retired the RVChem part of my business about nine months ago. Mike
NCHornet1 User ID: 1028194	May 26th 2:39 PM If all I am going to be gone a week is this enough time for the enzymes to really work. You are right about Odorless being a food for the bacteria that already exists, but from what I have been reading the enzyme based products don't really help much unless it is allowed to sit in the tanks for a while. I always dump and over flush my tanks prior to leaving a park, so would the enzyme product be a waste for me? As I said, I have never had a hint of odor with what I am using so part of me says "don't fix something that ain't broke". What do you think? Kevin (Mod)
Mike Administrator	May 29th 9:45 AM Kevin, The idea behind enzyme producing bacteria based holding tank products is that they add an abundance of bacteria to the holding tank right now, bacteria which would otherwise take a much longer time to grow naturally. The bacteria in liquid products becomes effective immediately when it has material to digest. Where no such material exists the liquid bacteria remains dormant. So, the answer to your question is, yes. A week, even a day, is enough time for the enzymes to start working. In addition, the longer you leave the product in the holding tank the better. That's why I recommend adding a couple gallons of water and a couple ounces of bacteria to an otherwise empty holding tank, even when in storage. Mike
Marty User ID: 2484284	May 29th 5:29 PM Ok Mike" I know I'm dumb as "S" on this subject, but are you saying that by putting just a couple of gallon of water plus "liquid enzymes product" in a tank, it will, ie: also clean the probes that set well above the fluid level? (depending on time period) Marty in TN
Mike Administrator	May 29th 6:10 PM No, Marty. That's not what I said. However, adding a couple of ounces of a good liquid bacteria holding tank product, FILLING the holding tank with fresh, clean water, and leaving it for a number of days . . . WILL. Anything that's shrouding the sensor 'that would normally be disposed of in an RV waste water holding tank', including TP and grease, would be digested by the enzymes. The following is from my old FAQ page. Remember, the specific product mentioned is no longer available and I'm NOT going back into that business! ;-) ****************************** Question: My black water holding tank sensor doesn't read correctly anymore. I know that the tank is almost empty but the indicator panel reads three quarters full all the time. Leon Response: The problem is either mechanical, electrical, or the result of a dirty in-tank sensor. Here's a good, inexpensive way to find out if a dirty sending unit is indeed the culprit, and most times fix it if it is. The next time you store your RV between trips make sure you’ve emptied and thoroughly rinsed the holding tank. Then fill it with fresh water to nearly full, add the correct amount of CrestLine Liquid Bacteria for the capacity of the tank, and fill it the rest of the way with water. Let the RV sit as long as you can without adding anything to the tank. This will allow the bacteria and the enzymes they produce to do their job of digesting any toilet paper or organic debris that may be clinging to the sensors. Finally, before your next outing, simply empty and thoroughly rinse the tank once again. If you have allowed sufficient time (a few days or so should do it but really dirty tanks may need longer) for the enzymes to work the sensors should read correctly. If they don't then the problem is most likely mechanical or electrical and, if you're not handy with such things, you'll need to take the RV to a service center for additional diagnosis and repair. We also recommend that this procedure be performed on an annual basis to keep both your grey and black water holding tanks, sensors, and dump valves pristine clean. At less than forty cents to treat a 20 gallon holding tank, CrestLine Liquid Bacteria is the least expensive insurance you'll ever buy. Remember that extremely dirty holding tanks didn't get that way overnight. Be sure to allow the enzymes enough time to 'eat' their way through all of the accumulated matter. Regular use of CrestLine Liquid Bacteria, along with correct holding tank dumping techniques, should prevent any reoccurrence of fouled holding tank sensors. ********************************* Mike
ces User ID: 2365684	Jul 24th 1:01 AM What did use in the holding tank was TST. I was satisfied with it, but read in one of the recent Escapees magazines that one of the chemicals in it was quite bad for other living things & the environment in general. So I switched to Odorlos. The odor control is fine. But the sensors are not. I've been parked for several months. For all of this time I always use a lot of water in flushing. I probably have to empty the tank every 3 or 4 days, that's how much water I flush it with. (There's just me & my Mom & she's in Depends) I use Scott TP. When I first empty the tank and then add the Odorlos, I flush about 6 toilet bowls full of water. Suggestions? Where do you get this Pure Power? Is there a website for it? Cathy
Mike Administrator	Jul 24th 10:06 PM Cathy, Wayne M. posted the URL for the product in his message of Mar 4th at 6:51 PM. http://www.phasefourindustries.com/Prod.html Re. TST; See the 'Formadehyde or natural bacteria?' thread. To the best of my knowledge, Camco makes no bacteria based holding tank products. (That was true a year or so ago when one of their reps talked to me about selling my business to them.) Although TST liquid is advertised as "Formaldehyde free - safe for all septic tanks!" and TST Free is advertised as "environmentally-friendly liquid treatment has no perfumes, dyes or formaldehyde." that doesn't necessarily make it so. There are many chemicals in the formaldehyde family called other than 'formaldehyde'. Saying a product contains no formaldehyde doesn't mean that it doesn't contain chemicals from the same family. Any chemical name ending in 'dehyde' is bad. 'Fromalin' is an oft used "substitute" for formaldehyde by is really still formaldehyde, just watered down. Likewise, products advertised this way may contain alcohol based chemicals which will also kill beneficial bacteria and poison our environment. Since Odorlos is not a bacteria based holding tank product (it's basically liquid fertilizer) it will do nothing more to clean your holding tank sensor probes than will simply using the toilet for its intended purpose. Mike
cad_man User ID: 1028194	Aug 8th 10:59 AM Here's another bacteria/enzyme based choice. http://www.bio-clean.com/default.php I have no experience with the product and this is not a recommendation, just information. (Mod)
Mike Administrator	Aug 8th 11:08 AM Cad_man, It's a RidX like product geared toward the hospitality industry. Check out their 'R.V. & BOAT HOLDING TANKS' application. It's pretty funny, obviously added as a last minute thought by someone who really doesn't know about RV and marine waste water holding tanks. Some of their other application claims are pretty far fetched as well. Mike
Stan User ID: 0192094	Aug 8th 6:30 PM Hey Mike; What about yeast? When I was on a septic system It worked very well. Stan
Mike Administrator	Aug 8th 9:01 PM Stan, It won't work. It's a different type of bacteria. Becides, I never heard of anyone who wanted to make bread in a waste water holding tank! ;-) Mike
Stan User ID: 0192094	Aug 8th 9:35 PM Mike, I guess "They Say" has lied again. I did look up a few sites on septic sys. It will to some degree increase enzyme action but it is a waste of money acording to the sites that I visited. Manure and dead cats don't work either.LOL Stan
BOB User ID: 1578334	Aug 9th 8:40 PM I wonder if all this antibacterial soap has any affect on the bacteria in my tank. BOB