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The RVer's Open Forum / GENERAL RV DISCUSSIONS / Holding tank chemicals

Next 20 Messages Newest 20 Messages

barney
User ID: 1418774 Feb 26th 8:46 AM
What is the best additive to use in the holding tanks to claen the sensors and tank?

Mike
Administrator Feb 26th 12:01 PM
Barney,

The best additive is a good liquid, bacteria based, enzyme producing holding tank treatments. The same stuff you should use for everyday holding tank treatment.

Into an empty tank add the appropriate amount of treatment for the total capacity of the tank. Then fill the tank with fresh water and let it sit as long as you want. The longer the better, but not less than a week or so. You can leave it for 'months' while in storage . . . as long as the weather isn't so cold that the contents of the tank will freeze!

The enzymes produced by the bacteria will ingest/dissolve any solids, including TP, which they come into contact with. Remember that the tank and sensors didn't get as dirty as they are overnight so don't be impatient . . . allow the bacteria to do their job.

If the sensors still don't function correctly than there is almost always either a mechanical or electrical failure.

Some people recommend home brewed concoctions. I don't. They're expensive, ineffective, and often destructive to both your waster water holding system AND to the receiving septic system.

Others recommed adding a few bags of ice cubes to the tank. Again, I don't. While ice cubes won't hurt anything, they're a lot more expensive than the proper holding tank treatment and the practice is seldom effective.

The BEST way to clean your tank and sensors is to never have to . . . because you follow good maintenance techniques.

Mike

AyJay
User ID: 1355924 Mar 1st 8:51 AM
Well said Mike;
Almost like you know what it is you're talking about :-).

Ayjay

tk
User ID: 9892733 Mar 1st 9:04 AM
That's because Mike is THE expert on this, having sold his Crestline Enzyme holding tank product up until just recently, when he retired.

Mark
User ID: 3257544 Mar 4th 9:55 AM
Has anybody found a readily available product to replace Mike's famous liquid bugs for the black tank??

(Mod)

wayne m.
User ID: 0317884 Mar 4th 6:51 PM
You might try this url for info on Pure Power:

http://www.phasefourindustries.com/Prod.html

I ordered some Pure Power but have not used it yet as I still have some of Mike's bugs to use.

Kirk
User ID: 8318753 Mar 14th 8:20 AM
I too use Rid-X and am wondering what Mike has to say about it. I know several others who have used it for some time now will good success and so far, we have too, but we have only used it for cool weather to date. But it seems to me that what it does is the same as those products that Mike supports, except that it is a powder. Mike, are you out there?

barney
User ID: 1516194 Mar 14th 8:58 AM
Where can you buy this Rid-X

Mike
Administrator Mar 14th 10:36 AM
Barney, you can buy Rid-X in almost any hardware, farm supply and home improvement store. It's a slow acting, low grade dry product that's designed for long term use in home *septic systems*.

The reason I, AND the manufacturer of Rid-X, don't recommend it for RV usage is that it simply doesn't contain either the quantity or type of bacteria strains necessary to quickly and effectively treat RV wastewater holding tanks. It is not immediately active.

Rid-X is to be added to home *septic systems* once a month. It takes a long time to become active and the monthly doseage was determined for an average size home *septic system*. It continually replaces the bacteria that are lost due to the commercial cleaners, disinfectants, bleach, etc. that are used at home and it enhances those bacteria that do survive to help break down the solids that go into a home *septic system* over the long haul.

RV wastewater holding tanks are NOT *septic systems*. The are, as the name implies, holding tanks that simply store many gallons of concentrated waste for a short period of time that culminates in a one shot disposal into a septic system (either private or municipal).

Flushing a toilet a dozen times per day deposits perhaps a few gallons of solid wastes and three or four times that amount of water into a septic system. RV wastewater holding tanks, on the other hand, contain a far greater percentage of waste solids than they do liquid/water. We use maybe a quart of water to flush an RV toilet as compared to three or more gallons to flush a home toilet.

RV wastewater holding tanks are not *septic systems* and the conditions and requirements for using a bacteria based treatment are entirely different.

RV wastewater holding tanks require a very fast acting, immediate, supplement to the naturally occurring bacteria. On one hand, the quantity of waste stored is relatively small when compared to a home septic system. On the other hand, dumping that 20 to 80 gallons of concentrated waste all at once into a receiving septic system is a LOT different than flushing a toilet at home!

That's why the use of a highly concentrated, fast acting, multi culture liquid bacteria based holding tank treatment is far superior to using a product like Rid-X in an RV wastewater holding tank. We need to do all that we can to break down the waste solids we store in our RVs *before* we dump them into a receiving septic system.

The cost of using a quality wastewater holding tank treatment product, one developed specifically for our needs, is about fifty cents per dose. A single fifty cent application can last many weeks, even months, depending upon how often you fill and need to dump the tank. How can anyone who can afford to own and operate an RV today suggest that fifty cents is too much money and that they use a product like Rid-X to save money?

Mike

HenryG
User ID: 9607473 May 14th 7:15 AM
Mike, what is your opinion on Digest-It (for RVs)or Super Digest It, which I have heard is the same stuff only available at hardware stores for half the price? As you might remember, I am using Odorlos but you're the "bug man" and know about this stuff!

Mike
Administrator May 14th 9:58 AM
Henry,

To the best of my recollection, I've never heard of or seen the product(s).

Provide the address for a website devoted to it and I'll take a look.

Mike

HenryG
User ID: 9607473 May 15th 7:51 AM
The only place online I could find that had any description at all was http://www.colehardware.com/hotline/2003/05/digestit.htm or http://allpetsolutions.zoovy.com/category/septic_system_digesters/. A local petstore sells it in liquid form to clean animal smells and promotes it for RVs. I have never used it and know nothing about it but two campground neighbors were recently raving about it ... that's why I asked.

Kevin from NC.
User ID: 0534004 May 17th 4:19 PM
Barney,
I have a family of four and use Odorlos in my trailer and I have never had any foul odors to complain about. The product claims to break down solids clean sensors and lubricate sills and is formaldyhide free. I have been using it for a year and have never had any problem with sensors not reading right. I think the problem with sensors not reading correctly is not the product used for odor it is in the maintenance and cleaning of your tanks. Before I leave a campground I take about an hour and first drain both my holding tanks. Ithen fill them with fresh water and drain again. I do this four times to each tank. I then pour two cups of bleach into each tank along with 3 to 5 gallons of fresh water. Upon arriving at home I then drain this at home. I live on a farm so I can do this, although there has never been anything offensive left by the time I arrive home. This practice although time consuming assures that the tanks are clean.
Good Luck
Kevin from NC.

Mike
Administrator May 17th 6:21 PM
Kevin,

Your dramatic over-rinsing and use of bleach in the waste water holding tanks assures that all of the *beneficial* bacteria which breaks down the waste you deposit in the tanks is killed. (I'm glad you only dump this at home!)

This bacteria is *essential* to good waste water holding tank maintenance. Odorlos does not contain bacteria and therefore does not aid in breaking down TP and other solid waste. Odorlos is essentially a liquid fertilizer that is supposed to 'feed' the naturally occuring bacteria. If there's no bacteria Odorlos does little but cover malodors.

MIke

Bud
User ID: 0004344 May 20th 9:49 PM
Mike,
Can you give us names of products which have
the family of bacteria that you suggest as the
best way to digest tank contents?
Thanks,
Bud

Mike
Administrator May 20th 11:22 PM
I'm sorry, Bud. I can't recommend any specific product.

I can, however, provide some insight on what to look for in a enyzyme producing bacteria based holding tank product.

First, concentration level. Two ounces to treat a standard 40 gal. tank is the right dilution ratio. Any less, i.e. one oz. to 40 gal., is too small an amount to work with unless you dilute the product yourself by mixing a quart of tap water to a quart of product.

Products requiring four or more ounces (some require 12!) to treat a 40 gal. tank are watered down and therefore expensive.

Second, the guarantee. If it's not a total satisfaction guarantee for a long enough period to allow you to really evaluate the product the guarantee is no good. Our's was 60 days, no questions asked.

Third, and most important, is the mix and quantity of bacteria. For this you will need the product MSDS (material safety data sheet). Manufacturers are required by law to provide this information. If a store or company won't willing provide this information they are suspect.

Here's what our bacteria mix was:
Bacteria count: 200,000,000,000/gal. (two hundred BILLION per gallon! The highest concentration of any product that I'm aware of on the market today.)

producing the following enzymes
protease...fat, grease & oil digesting bacteria
lipase...protein digesting bacteria
amylase...starch digesting bacteria
cellulase...cellulose digesting bacteria (specifically for TP)

Last but not least, shelf life.
Our's was 2 years minimum.

Mike

Mike
User ID: 9683713 May 22nd 5:11 AM
Mike, say it aint so! I can't get your stuff anymore?!!!

The best product I have found anywhere...Oh boy, here we go again with problems.

cad _man
User ID: 8019393 May 22nd 10:16 AM
Base on Mike's above statements, I did some (as in a little) research on Pure Power. It seems, from the small amount of information you can get off the WEB about the product, it is close to Mike's old product. When I run out of my last of Mike's STUFF, I will purchase Pure Power and give it a shot. According to their WEB site it would have a Bacteria count of 280 Billion per gallon, it also uses the same concentration as before, 2 oz. per 40 gallons. It does use enzymes as well, alas it does not give a description of them.

cad_man

Mike
Administrator May 22nd 11:12 AM
cad_man,

Please do report back with your opinion of the product. I see that the reported bacteria count is indeed higher than I thought. If the mix is right that's good news.

Two things that bother me are the addition of green dye and wintergreen fragrance. The dye is totally unnecessary. Unless it's overpowering, the fragrance is probably okay but I would be interested in your impressions.

Mike, I retired the RVChem part of my business about nine months ago.

Mike

NCHornet1
User ID: 1028194 May 26th 2:39 PM
If all I am going to be gone a week is this enough time for the enzymes to really work. You are right about Odorless being a food for the bacteria that already exists, but from what I have been reading the enzyme based products don't really help much unless it is allowed to sit in the tanks for a while. I always dump and over flush my tanks prior to leaving a park, so would the enzyme product be a waste for me? As I said, I have never had a hint of odor with what I am using so part of me says "don't fix something that ain't broke". What do you think?
Kevin

(Mod)

Next 20 Messages Newest 20 Messages

barney User ID: 1418774	Feb 26th 8:46 AM What is the best additive to use in the holding tanks to claen the sensors and tank?
Mike Administrator	Feb 26th 12:01 PM Barney, The best additive is a good liquid, bacteria based, enzyme producing holding tank treatments. The same stuff you should use for everyday holding tank treatment. Into an empty tank add the appropriate amount of treatment for the total capacity of the tank. Then fill the tank with fresh water and let it sit as long as you want. The longer the better, but not less than a week or so. You can leave it for 'months' while in storage . . . as long as the weather isn't so cold that the contents of the tank will freeze! The enzymes produced by the bacteria will ingest/dissolve any solids, including TP, which they come into contact with. Remember that the tank and sensors didn't get as dirty as they are overnight so don't be impatient . . . allow the bacteria to do their job. If the sensors still don't function correctly than there is almost always either a mechanical or electrical failure. Some people recommend home brewed concoctions. I don't. They're expensive, ineffective, and often destructive to both your waster water holding system AND to the receiving septic system. Others recommed adding a few bags of ice cubes to the tank. Again, I don't. While ice cubes won't hurt anything, they're a lot more expensive than the proper holding tank treatment and the practice is seldom effective. The BEST way to clean your tank and sensors is to never have to . . . because you follow good maintenance techniques. Mike
AyJay User ID: 1355924	Mar 1st 8:51 AM Well said Mike; Almost like you know what it is you're talking about :-). Ayjay
tk User ID: 9892733	Mar 1st 9:04 AM That's because Mike is THE expert on this, having sold his Crestline Enzyme holding tank product up until just recently, when he retired.
Mark User ID: 3257544	Mar 4th 9:55 AM Has anybody found a readily available product to replace Mike's famous liquid bugs for the black tank?? (Mod)
wayne m. User ID: 0317884	Mar 4th 6:51 PM You might try this url for info on Pure Power: http://www.phasefourindustries.com/Prod.html I ordered some Pure Power but have not used it yet as I still have some of Mike's bugs to use.
Kirk User ID: 8318753	Mar 14th 8:20 AM I too use Rid-X and am wondering what Mike has to say about it. I know several others who have used it for some time now will good success and so far, we have too, but we have only used it for cool weather to date. But it seems to me that what it does is the same as those products that Mike supports, except that it is a powder. Mike, are you out there?
barney User ID: 1516194	Mar 14th 8:58 AM Where can you buy this Rid-X
Mike Administrator	Mar 14th 10:36 AM Barney, you can buy Rid-X in almost any hardware, farm supply and home improvement store. It's a slow acting, low grade dry product that's designed for long term use in home septic systems. The reason I, AND the manufacturer of Rid-X, don't recommend it for RV usage is that it simply doesn't contain either the quantity or type of bacteria strains necessary to quickly and effectively treat RV wastewater holding tanks. It is not immediately active. Rid-X is to be added to home septic systems once a month. It takes a long time to become active and the monthly doseage was determined for an average size home septic system. It continually replaces the bacteria that are lost due to the commercial cleaners, disinfectants, bleach, etc. that are used at home and it enhances those bacteria that do survive to help break down the solids that go into a home septic system over the long haul. RV wastewater holding tanks are NOT septic systems. The are, as the name implies, holding tanks that simply store many gallons of concentrated waste for a short period of time that culminates in a one shot disposal into a septic system (either private or municipal). Flushing a toilet a dozen times per day deposits perhaps a few gallons of solid wastes and three or four times that amount of water into a septic system. RV wastewater holding tanks, on the other hand, contain a far greater percentage of waste solids than they do liquid/water. We use maybe a quart of water to flush an RV toilet as compared to three or more gallons to flush a home toilet. RV wastewater holding tanks are not septic systems and the conditions and requirements for using a bacteria based treatment are entirely different. RV wastewater holding tanks require a very fast acting, immediate, supplement to the naturally occurring bacteria. On one hand, the quantity of waste stored is relatively small when compared to a home septic system. On the other hand, dumping that 20 to 80 gallons of concentrated waste all at once into a receiving septic system is a LOT different than flushing a toilet at home! That's why the use of a highly concentrated, fast acting, multi culture liquid bacteria based holding tank treatment is far superior to using a product like Rid-X in an RV wastewater holding tank. We need to do all that we can to break down the waste solids we store in our RVs before we dump them into a receiving septic system. The cost of using a quality wastewater holding tank treatment product, one developed specifically for our needs, is about fifty cents per dose. A single fifty cent application can last many weeks, even months, depending upon how often you fill and need to dump the tank. How can anyone who can afford to own and operate an RV today suggest that fifty cents is too much money and that they use a product like Rid-X to save money? Mike
HenryG User ID: 9607473	May 14th 7:15 AM Mike, what is your opinion on Digest-It (for RVs)or Super Digest It, which I have heard is the same stuff only available at hardware stores for half the price? As you might remember, I am using Odorlos but you're the "bug man" and know about this stuff!
Mike Administrator	May 14th 9:58 AM Henry, To the best of my recollection, I've never heard of or seen the product(s). Provide the address for a website devoted to it and I'll take a look. Mike
HenryG User ID: 9607473	May 15th 7:51 AM The only place online I could find that had any description at all was http://www.colehardware.com/hotline/2003/05/digestit.htm or http://allpetsolutions.zoovy.com/category/septic_system_digesters/. A local petstore sells it in liquid form to clean animal smells and promotes it for RVs. I have never used it and know nothing about it but two campground neighbors were recently raving about it ... that's why I asked.
Kevin from NC. User ID: 0534004	May 17th 4:19 PM Barney, I have a family of four and use Odorlos in my trailer and I have never had any foul odors to complain about. The product claims to break down solids clean sensors and lubricate sills and is formaldyhide free. I have been using it for a year and have never had any problem with sensors not reading right. I think the problem with sensors not reading correctly is not the product used for odor it is in the maintenance and cleaning of your tanks. Before I leave a campground I take about an hour and first drain both my holding tanks. Ithen fill them with fresh water and drain again. I do this four times to each tank. I then pour two cups of bleach into each tank along with 3 to 5 gallons of fresh water. Upon arriving at home I then drain this at home. I live on a farm so I can do this, although there has never been anything offensive left by the time I arrive home. This practice although time consuming assures that the tanks are clean. Good Luck Kevin from NC.
Mike Administrator	May 17th 6:21 PM Kevin, Your dramatic over-rinsing and use of bleach in the waste water holding tanks assures that all of the beneficial bacteria which breaks down the waste you deposit in the tanks is killed. (I'm glad you only dump this at home!) This bacteria is essential to good waste water holding tank maintenance. Odorlos does not contain bacteria and therefore does not aid in breaking down TP and other solid waste. Odorlos is essentially a liquid fertilizer that is supposed to 'feed' the naturally occuring bacteria. If there's no bacteria Odorlos does little but cover malodors. MIke
Bud User ID: 0004344	May 20th 9:49 PM Mike, Can you give us names of products which have the family of bacteria that you suggest as the best way to digest tank contents? Thanks, Bud
Mike Administrator	May 20th 11:22 PM I'm sorry, Bud. I can't recommend any specific product. I can, however, provide some insight on what to look for in a enyzyme producing bacteria based holding tank product. First, concentration level. Two ounces to treat a standard 40 gal. tank is the right dilution ratio. Any less, i.e. one oz. to 40 gal., is too small an amount to work with unless you dilute the product yourself by mixing a quart of tap water to a quart of product. Products requiring four or more ounces (some require 12!) to treat a 40 gal. tank are watered down and therefore expensive. Second, the guarantee. If it's not a total satisfaction guarantee for a long enough period to allow you to really evaluate the product the guarantee is no good. Our's was 60 days, no questions asked. Third, and most important, is the mix and quantity of bacteria. For this you will need the product MSDS (material safety data sheet). Manufacturers are required by law to provide this information. If a store or company won't willing provide this information they are suspect. Here's what our bacteria mix was: Bacteria count: 200,000,000,000/gal. (two hundred BILLION per gallon! The highest concentration of any product that I'm aware of on the market today.) producing the following enzymes protease...fat, grease & oil digesting bacteria lipase...protein digesting bacteria amylase...starch digesting bacteria cellulase...cellulose digesting bacteria (specifically for TP) Last but not least, shelf life. Our's was 2 years minimum. Mike
Mike User ID: 9683713	May 22nd 5:11 AM Mike, say it aint so! I can't get your stuff anymore?!!! The best product I have found anywhere...Oh boy, here we go again with problems.
cad _man User ID: 8019393	May 22nd 10:16 AM Base on Mike's above statements, I did some (as in a little) research on Pure Power. It seems, from the small amount of information you can get off the WEB about the product, it is close to Mike's old product. When I run out of my last of Mike's STUFF, I will purchase Pure Power and give it a shot. According to their WEB site it would have a Bacteria count of 280 Billion per gallon, it also uses the same concentration as before, 2 oz. per 40 gallons. It does use enzymes as well, alas it does not give a description of them. cad_man
Mike Administrator	May 22nd 11:12 AM cad_man, Please do report back with your opinion of the product. I see that the reported bacteria count is indeed higher than I thought. If the mix is right that's good news. Two things that bother me are the addition of green dye and wintergreen fragrance. The dye is totally unnecessary. Unless it's overpowering, the fragrance is probably okay but I would be interested in your impressions. Mike, I retired the RVChem part of my business about nine months ago. Mike
NCHornet1 User ID: 1028194	May 26th 2:39 PM If all I am going to be gone a week is this enough time for the enzymes to really work. You are right about Odorless being a food for the bacteria that already exists, but from what I have been reading the enzyme based products don't really help much unless it is allowed to sit in the tanks for a while. I always dump and over flush my tanks prior to leaving a park, so would the enzyme product be a waste for me? As I said, I have never had a hint of odor with what I am using so part of me says "don't fix something that ain't broke". What do you think? Kevin (Mod)