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The RVer's Open Forum / TECHNICAL RV HELP / P-30 Air bladders

Next 20 Messages

Tim Mar 28th 2:04 AM
Is it possible to change the air bladders on the p-30 chassis with out having to tear the front end apart? Is it possible to slide them through the space in the springs?

bill h
User ID: 9070813 Mar 28th 2:24 AM
You deflate them by squeezing and folding, then put the cap on to keep them from filling up. Jack up by the crossmember. Stuff them through the hole in the lower suspension arm. Put the rubber discs in last.

Blaine
User ID: 8798943 Mar 28th 5:58 AM
Tim I removed a pair from a 1990 P30, put some grease around the hole in the bottom, used vise grips and twisted and pulled at the same time, installed them just like Bill h told you, good luck. Blaine

bill h
User ID: 9070813 Mar 28th 11:27 AM
I used a vice grip and a knife to get the pieces out between the coils. Just kept pulling and cutting.

ron g.
User ID: 9627953 Mar 28th 11:19 PM
I think this was on the instructions when I got my new a few years ago, anyway it worked: Take a hole saw a little smaller than the crossmember hole and drill out the bottom of the old bag. Then take pliers and twist it around and pull it out. The bottom of the bag is extra thick and drilling it out really helped. I had a harder time getting the first new one in. They are hard to unfold inside the spring without wrinkles. Partially inflate and use soapy water for a lubricant to smooth it out.

Tom
User ID: 8701433 Jun 13th 10:35 PM
Thanks guys. The first time I look on the net about changing the air bags on the front of my P-30 I find ALL this information. I was wondering about hooking both air lines together and installing a pressure gauge so that the pressure would be equal and easy to monitor. Thanks again!

bill h
User ID: 1439244 Jun 14th 1:08 AM
Tom, I wouldn't recommend a tee in the lines. The vehicle will have less resistance to lean. When a sway starts, the air is just chased from one side to the other, actually increasing the tilt. If you run your hoses so the valves are close to each other, you can use a double inflator like camping world sells or make your own. I also use my dual inflator for the rear tires.

Jack A.
User ID: 6437603 Jun 14th 3:31 PM
Tom, The previous owner of our Class A 1997 Safari Trek did what the very thing you are ssking about. They said it was easier to monitor and adjust the psi if ever required. In the 1,500 mile I have driven the unit, no problems.

Bill H., Are you saying the psi from one bag to another changes to what they were before the lean. Is our MH more prone to more of problem this way? This is our first MH. Thanks

Brett
User ID: 0303694 Jun 14th 4:00 PM
Jack,

Bill is absolutely correct. As you go around a corner the bag on the outside of the corner is compressed, supporting more body weight, taking some of the lean out of the body. IF a hose connects this bag (now under high pressure) to the other bag (now under lower than normal pressure because the body is leaning AWAY from it) the air would just flow from the high pressure bag to the low pressure bag, giving you no support at all. The bags would function normally only when both bags are compressed at the same time, as when the whole front end goes into a dip. Looks like you can regain some "sway control" very cheaply!

Jack A.
User ID: 6437603 Jun 14th 11:14 PM
Thanks Bill and Brett. I will be looking into how best I can separate mine. Hopefully I can add another gauge along side the existing one.

Jack

Jack A.
User ID: 6437603 Jun 15th 1:02 PM
Just talked with the Air Lift Company's Technical Support rep. and explained my concern with having both airbags on a tee with a single inflation line. They said with my rig, being a P30 chassis with an up front diesel, most of the weight is from the engine and it wouldn't make much difference. If the rig had significantly different weights on each front wheel then it would. Also, there is some minuet air transfer from one bag to the other during a turn or sway, but in a MH at slower speeds, it was not a concern. They stated I would not be speeding, doing shaloms around the cones.

My MH OEM bags may not be Air Lift bags, but I called them, having their airbags on my truck and talking with them in the past. Their number is 1-800-248-0892, ext. 2 or email techsupport@airliftcompany.com

Jack

bill h
User ID: 1439244 Jun 15th 3:55 PM
I haven't done a comparison with my 2 P30s, but I used an Olds 98 RWD as a tow car, and found a big improvement when I switched to individual hoses in the rear Air Lifts. I might add that I also had Koni shocks, Addco sway bars front and rear, Monroe rear towing springs, and an equalizer hitch with friction anti sway. The individual hoses still made a big difference.

And, no, you will not be doing slaloms around cones, but in an emergency you will want every advantage you can build into your vehicle. Many, many accidents could have been avoided with better driving skills and better set up chassis. Many loss of control accidents are the result of excessive lean or poor transition from one direction to another. With my family along, I want every handling advantage I can build into my vehicle. And P30s need all the help they can get. We can't all afford Alpines.

Also, some people, including at least one tech support guy at Air Lift, use individual hoses to correct minor levelling problems at campsites. This can even be done from the dash.

Brett
User ID: 0303694 Jun 15th 5:18 PM
Jack,

Air Lift's opinion, that you will "not be speeding, doing shaloms around the cones" is bizrre. Would they also suggest you that you WILL NOT drive in mountains either? Strange for a suspension enhancing company to tell you it is not that important to maximize your sway control, particularly with the P30 narrow front track chassis.

There is nothing to gain (except saving 20 seconds in checking two air valves instead of one). You WILL loose some sway control-- even if it is "not too much". The ID of the air line connecting the air bags will determine how much sway control you loose. With this chassis, why give up any?

Jack A.
User ID: 6437603 Jun 15th 5:44 PM
Thanks again Bill and Brett. What you're saying is swaying me back to being concerned again. Will take your statements under advisement.

Kenneth Jun 17th 5:08 PM
You mean it is actually possible to replace the air bags in the front springs without dropping the "A" arm? My newly purchased 96 flair has a bad airbag on the passenger side so i will replace both soon. If i get this right I can jack up the front to stretch out the spring, take a saw and cut the existing bag out? Then do I put the new bag in thru the stretched out coil spring or do i try to stuff it up thru the hole at the bootom of the arm? This hole looks to be no bigger than a 50 cent piece. Also once I replace these will they actually raise the front of the vehicle a coupleof inches when inflated?

Jack A.
User ID: 6437603 Jun 18th 11:37 AM
FOR THE RECORD on the subject of air bags tied together on MHs.

The Air-Lift Company Support Services gave me the following clarification advise in regard to my concern on this subject.

"You will get maximum roll control with the air bags separated. If you have any doubt about which way to do it, then separate the air lines. It's simple to do and is an added measure in safety and stability. I always recommend separating the air bags on motorhomes because of the high center of gravity. Any help with roll control is usually appreciated by the driver."

Thanks Les, Mike and Ram for making this RV website a great resource for RV information. And thanks fellow RV'ers for taking the time to share. Also appreciate the great service and products the Air Lift Company provides their customers. I will be separating my air bags!

Jack A.

Mike - Moderator
Moderator
User ID: 8200143 Jun 18th 11:43 AM
Kenneth,

Although I've never replaced/installed a set of air bags, I've learned from others on the Forum that if you soap up the bag when installing it that it will 'slip' into place inside the spring much easier than if you don't.

As to where to insert it, I'll leave that to those with hands on experience.

Mike

dave costa
User ID: 2052144 Aug 22nd 10:53 AM
Hi gang... After reading this site I checked my bags and they were shot. I ordered my thru a parts store. Got the same ones as camping world - Air Lift -. Getting the old ones out only took one hour for both. A lot of pulling and turning. The new ones were alot harder to get in. But if you follow the directions it finally goes. It took all my strength to do this, but it works. They also give you new hoses to check the air anywhere in the front without going under. Have fun. dc

ray
User ID: 0415304 Aug 22nd 9:16 PM
This has been a great thread but I would like to ask do we need the air bags. why not replace with coil springs from henderson or coil spring specialties both companies have matched weight coil springs to fit all P30 chassis. I would like to hear the pro's and con's.
Thanks
Ray

Greg
User ID: 8353323 Aug 23rd 10:32 AM
Ray...what's the cost of the replacements and how much time to change them out?

Replacing with the aftermarket bags is cheap and relatively fast. Just replaced my front bags last month by myself and I have very similar comments to the others on this thread. About $80 total cost from CW with a coupon. (just for grins I called the local GM dealer...$129 EACH for theirs). 2 hours from start I was completely done.

If I had problems with my rigs lean, sway or bouncing, etc. I might have considered some type of upgrade..but I haven't seen those problems in mine.

Next 20 Messages

Tim	Mar 28th 2:04 AM Is it possible to change the air bladders on the p-30 chassis with out having to tear the front end apart? Is it possible to slide them through the space in the springs?
bill h User ID: 9070813	Mar 28th 2:24 AM You deflate them by squeezing and folding, then put the cap on to keep them from filling up. Jack up by the crossmember. Stuff them through the hole in the lower suspension arm. Put the rubber discs in last.
Blaine User ID: 8798943	Mar 28th 5:58 AM Tim I removed a pair from a 1990 P30, put some grease around the hole in the bottom, used vise grips and twisted and pulled at the same time, installed them just like Bill h told you, good luck. Blaine
bill h User ID: 9070813	Mar 28th 11:27 AM I used a vice grip and a knife to get the pieces out between the coils. Just kept pulling and cutting.
ron g. User ID: 9627953	Mar 28th 11:19 PM I think this was on the instructions when I got my new a few years ago, anyway it worked: Take a hole saw a little smaller than the crossmember hole and drill out the bottom of the old bag. Then take pliers and twist it around and pull it out. The bottom of the bag is extra thick and drilling it out really helped. I had a harder time getting the first new one in. They are hard to unfold inside the spring without wrinkles. Partially inflate and use soapy water for a lubricant to smooth it out.
Tom User ID: 8701433	Jun 13th 10:35 PM Thanks guys. The first time I look on the net about changing the air bags on the front of my P-30 I find ALL this information. I was wondering about hooking both air lines together and installing a pressure gauge so that the pressure would be equal and easy to monitor. Thanks again!
bill h User ID: 1439244	Jun 14th 1:08 AM Tom, I wouldn't recommend a tee in the lines. The vehicle will have less resistance to lean. When a sway starts, the air is just chased from one side to the other, actually increasing the tilt. If you run your hoses so the valves are close to each other, you can use a double inflator like camping world sells or make your own. I also use my dual inflator for the rear tires.
Jack A. User ID: 6437603	Jun 14th 3:31 PM Tom, The previous owner of our Class A 1997 Safari Trek did what the very thing you are ssking about. They said it was easier to monitor and adjust the psi if ever required. In the 1,500 mile I have driven the unit, no problems. Bill H., Are you saying the psi from one bag to another changes to what they were before the lean. Is our MH more prone to more of problem this way? This is our first MH. Thanks
Brett User ID: 0303694	Jun 14th 4:00 PM Jack, Bill is absolutely correct. As you go around a corner the bag on the outside of the corner is compressed, supporting more body weight, taking some of the lean out of the body. IF a hose connects this bag (now under high pressure) to the other bag (now under lower than normal pressure because the body is leaning AWAY from it) the air would just flow from the high pressure bag to the low pressure bag, giving you no support at all. The bags would function normally only when both bags are compressed at the same time, as when the whole front end goes into a dip. Looks like you can regain some "sway control" very cheaply!
Jack A. User ID: 6437603	Jun 14th 11:14 PM Thanks Bill and Brett. I will be looking into how best I can separate mine. Hopefully I can add another gauge along side the existing one. Jack
Jack A. User ID: 6437603	Jun 15th 1:02 PM Just talked with the Air Lift Company's Technical Support rep. and explained my concern with having both airbags on a tee with a single inflation line. They said with my rig, being a P30 chassis with an up front diesel, most of the weight is from the engine and it wouldn't make much difference. If the rig had significantly different weights on each front wheel then it would. Also, there is some minuet air transfer from one bag to the other during a turn or sway, but in a MH at slower speeds, it was not a concern. They stated I would not be speeding, doing shaloms around the cones. My MH OEM bags may not be Air Lift bags, but I called them, having their airbags on my truck and talking with them in the past. Their number is 1-800-248-0892, ext. 2 or email techsupport@airliftcompany.com Jack
bill h User ID: 1439244	Jun 15th 3:55 PM I haven't done a comparison with my 2 P30s, but I used an Olds 98 RWD as a tow car, and found a big improvement when I switched to individual hoses in the rear Air Lifts. I might add that I also had Koni shocks, Addco sway bars front and rear, Monroe rear towing springs, and an equalizer hitch with friction anti sway. The individual hoses still made a big difference. And, no, you will not be doing slaloms around cones, but in an emergency you will want every advantage you can build into your vehicle. Many, many accidents could have been avoided with better driving skills and better set up chassis. Many loss of control accidents are the result of excessive lean or poor transition from one direction to another. With my family along, I want every handling advantage I can build into my vehicle. And P30s need all the help they can get. We can't all afford Alpines. Also, some people, including at least one tech support guy at Air Lift, use individual hoses to correct minor levelling problems at campsites. This can even be done from the dash.
Brett User ID: 0303694	Jun 15th 5:18 PM Jack, Air Lift's opinion, that you will "not be speeding, doing shaloms around the cones" is bizrre. Would they also suggest you that you WILL NOT drive in mountains either? Strange for a suspension enhancing company to tell you it is not that important to maximize your sway control, particularly with the P30 narrow front track chassis. There is nothing to gain (except saving 20 seconds in checking two air valves instead of one). You WILL loose some sway control-- even if it is "not too much". The ID of the air line connecting the air bags will determine how much sway control you loose. With this chassis, why give up any?
Jack A. User ID: 6437603	Jun 15th 5:44 PM Thanks again Bill and Brett. What you're saying is swaying me back to being concerned again. Will take your statements under advisement.
Kenneth	Jun 17th 5:08 PM You mean it is actually possible to replace the air bags in the front springs without dropping the "A" arm? My newly purchased 96 flair has a bad airbag on the passenger side so i will replace both soon. If i get this right I can jack up the front to stretch out the spring, take a saw and cut the existing bag out? Then do I put the new bag in thru the stretched out coil spring or do i try to stuff it up thru the hole at the bootom of the arm? This hole looks to be no bigger than a 50 cent piece. Also once I replace these will they actually raise the front of the vehicle a coupleof inches when inflated?
Jack A. User ID: 6437603	Jun 18th 11:37 AM FOR THE RECORD on the subject of air bags tied together on MHs. The Air-Lift Company Support Services gave me the following clarification advise in regard to my concern on this subject. "You will get maximum roll control with the air bags separated. If you have any doubt about which way to do it, then separate the air lines. It's simple to do and is an added measure in safety and stability. I always recommend separating the air bags on motorhomes because of the high center of gravity. Any help with roll control is usually appreciated by the driver." Thanks Les, Mike and Ram for making this RV website a great resource for RV information. And thanks fellow RV'ers for taking the time to share. Also appreciate the great service and products the Air Lift Company provides their customers. I will be separating my air bags! Jack A.
Mike - Moderator Moderator User ID: 8200143	Jun 18th 11:43 AM Kenneth, Although I've never replaced/installed a set of air bags, I've learned from others on the Forum that if you soap up the bag when installing it that it will 'slip' into place inside the spring much easier than if you don't. As to where to insert it, I'll leave that to those with hands on experience. Mike
dave costa User ID: 2052144	Aug 22nd 10:53 AM Hi gang... After reading this site I checked my bags and they were shot. I ordered my thru a parts store. Got the same ones as camping world - Air Lift -. Getting the old ones out only took one hour for both. A lot of pulling and turning. The new ones were alot harder to get in. But if you follow the directions it finally goes. It took all my strength to do this, but it works. They also give you new hoses to check the air anywhere in the front without going under. Have fun. dc
ray User ID: 0415304	Aug 22nd 9:16 PM This has been a great thread but I would like to ask do we need the air bags. why not replace with coil springs from henderson or coil spring specialties both companies have matched weight coil springs to fit all P30 chassis. I would like to hear the pro's and con's. Thanks Ray
Greg User ID: 8353323	Aug 23rd 10:32 AM Ray...what's the cost of the replacements and how much time to change them out? Replacing with the aftermarket bags is cheap and relatively fast. Just replaced my front bags last month by myself and I have very similar comments to the others on this thread. About $80 total cost from CW with a coupon. (just for grins I called the local GM dealer...$129 EACH for theirs). 2 hours from start I was completely done. If I had problems with my rigs lean, sway or bouncing, etc. I might have considered some type of upgrade..but I haven't seen those problems in mine.